A few words on Star Wars

[Bartman]

Okay this is the LOTL site. I know it and you know it. George (our George not Lucas) did a great job putting it together. Still in alot of our postings here Star Wars tends to come up, especially in relation to effects and storyline.

I threw this topic in so us LOTL fanatics can bash it out over Lucas's brainchild Star Wars.

The biggest conflict has got to be over Episode 1 being potentially just a long commercial to sell toys. I admit that merchandising is a big part of the fun of Star Wars but I don't agree with this view.

Episode 1 had the challenge of introducing a universe that most people already thought they new. Lucas wants to expand SW and show a society that existed before the War we saw with the original trilogy.

I think with Star Wars you have to view all the episodes as one long movie. Episode 1 is being bashed for being too childish. Ultimately I think we will need that childishness to balance out Episode 2 which is a romance story and Episode 3 which will be very dark.

As a matter of fact I bet critics completely switch their position when Episode 3 comes out and they bash Lucas for making such a dark, adult themed movie. Critics miss the whole point of Star Wars by not understanding that it is one big sweeping story. That's okay though because most of the fans understand this.

So that is my take.

[Ray]

Greetings Bartman,

I know Star Wars has kinda gotten off topic for the LOTL site but I think that both are in the spririt of good sci-fi and it can be excused :)

I did compare Episode 1 with being a long toy commerical and I still think that was the case,I loved the first trilogy I thought and still do think it is one of the best Sci-Fi stories to date and three of the most top grossing movies of all time,but Episode 1 lacked the great story telling of the orginal and like I always say its not special effects that really make the film but the story in the long run.

When Episode 1 was released I seen a interview with George Lucas on E television and he talked about his not directing a movie for almost 15 years now and that he put his efforts into running Lucasarts,basically becoming a Executive a businessman if you will and it shows,Star Wars appealed to people of all ages and he kept saying (and execs from Lucasarts) that Star Wars is a kids movie that really pissed me off,it was basically saying, yeah I know you adults probably for the most part wont be the target audience for my toys so even though you loved the previous films this one isnt for you.

And the biggest reason I feel Episode 1 was aimed to sell toys and geared to do just that Jar Jar Binks..did I think the computer generated character was racist as alot have claimed No!, but I do think using fart gags and him stepping into tons of manure was going way over the edge of having some comedy relief to having outright toilet humor,I mean who directed and wrote this film? George Lucas or Pauly Shore? (whats next Beavis and Binks? "meesa thinks Gwar rocks uh huh uhuh") Lucas might be rusty in the writing dept if so then he needs to get some help there.

It might have been different elsewhere in the country but Star Wars Episode 1 lasted maybe a month here before disappearing from the theatres a big contrast to the other films..

[Bartman]

Wow Ray only a month? Star Wars is still playing out here in California. People are still going to see it. Anyway I agree with you about the toilet humor. In very poor taste I thought. I don't view Jar Jar or any of the other creatures as any kind of racial stereotypes. Ultimately like I said before I am hoping that the Phantom Menace is a balance for the more powerful, adult themed movies to come. Star Wars is for kids though. Kids of all ages!

Since this is the LOTL site it is interesting to note the similarities in the Naboo City of Theede to Dinotopia. Also interesting that one of the key designers on Ep 1. had done some work on the upcoming Dinotopia movie.

[Ray]

As a Star Wars fan I hope the next two installments are much better least I am hoping anyway,Yes here the movie lasted till about the end of june or so,I live in Illinois but near St.Louis Mo..and it didnt seem to last as anywhere as long as the orginal trilogy did that is for sure.

I agree about the kids of all ages but I dont think that is what the folks at Lucasfilm was getting at,when the critism started about the movie a week or so after the release from the now 30+ year old fans of the orginal trilogy,Lucasfilms defense was.."Hey!this film was intended for 6-12 year olds not adults",which outraged alot of fans when they heard that me included.

I was mainly pissed at George Lucas,not once in all the years from the first trilogy up to the making of Episode one did he say he only intended Star Wars to be liked by 6-12 year olds and from what I remember of his interviews in the past during the first trilogy was exactly as you said for everyone of all ages and now after the release of Episode one it was a complete about face..

Anyway I digress and this is the LOTL forum not a Star Wars one..so until Holly Marshall is rescued from the LOTL by Luke Skywalker I will keep to the topic at hand ;-)

[MATT]

You should of read some of my posts back in May. I was not, er, very popular on some
of the Star Wars and movie bulletin boards.

I found the whole thing to be rather like a holy war. On one side of the Jihad you have the fundamentalists, those folks who think that once you begin to question the genius-brilliance-infallibility of Geo-Lucas, you begin down the long spiral of darkness to damnation. On the other side you have everyone from highbrow critics to malcontents to (and I hope I fall into the this latter category) earnestly disgruntled gen-exers, who, try as they might not to, will always have a place in their heart for Star Wars.

I saw episode one with my brother (three years older) ... One thing he remarked afterwards was how cool a character Darth Maul was.. i think that's his name -- the horned guy? -- anyhow the disappointment was tangible that we would never find out anything more about this great character. Here he was, there he went, chopped in two (in one of the coolest scenes) .... He's thrown away and it's too bad. But there you see, I'm cranky as ever. I'll start off by saying something nice about Star Wars, but have to end it with a criticism. ah well..

[Bartman]

There is a reason Darth Maul was thrown away and it is integral to the story. Over the next set of movies we will see Darth Sidious struggle to keep good dark apprentices. They keep getting slain by Jedi. The next one will be even cooler than Maul was. It keeps going until the man with high midicholorian count jumps to the Dark side and in turn slays all the jedi. The ultimate Dark side apprentice can not be beaten. You see everything done in Episode 1 is all a set up. In order to give Darth Vader the power he is due storywise we need to see very powerful sith failing at what he ultimately suceeds at.

We will understand more after the next two movies come out. Have faith in the master fellow gen-Xers!

[MATT]

Refresh my memory Ray. What are miticholorian?

[Ray]

Matt,
From what I gather miticholorians are the scientfic definition of what the force is inside the body, sort of like white corpuscles from what I gather the higher the count the stronger the force is within that person.

There is probably a better explanation but I only seen Episode 1 once and my memory is a bit shaky, though I know I shook my head at the explanation, like trying to scientifically explain American Indian spiritualism..I was more than satisfied with the force being part of all living things,I didnt need it to be explained with science,but oh well..

I am with Bartman about hoping the next two movies are better,I hope that Mr.Lucas can see that maybe just maybe he might need a little bit of help in the writing dept just have to wait and see.

[Slumberlord]

As musch of a Star Wars/ILM/Lucas basher as I am, I have to point out an argument flaw when I see one. Everyone is so pissy with Lucas for putting out a movie that doesn't do it for them like the Orginal (epsiode 4) did.
Well, most of us were 8-12 when that came out!!! You can't blame the guy for being consistent.

[Ray]

I would agree with that analogy for I was 10-16 when the first trilogy came out,but I look at it from the point of a adult now being that I watched all 3 original movies as a adult and still enjoyed them as much as I did at my younger age.

I guess that fact many of us who are in our 30's didnt grow up with Beavis & Butthead and Pauly Shore that we feel that stepping into manure and being farted on is not the pinacle of humor in a film,the clever quips between 3PO and R2 and Han and leia and 3PO were great instances of humor being injected into a story that didnt turn it into farce.

That is the main differences I see between the orginals and episode 1 after all its Star Wars not Spaceballs..

[Bartman]

Just to add to the midicholorian definition, they are more like a mitochandria in our cells adding power. The midi's or organisms on their own though and live in symbiosis with their host increasing their host's force sensitivity. The Phantom Menace really focused on symbiotic relationships and Lucas chose to partially explain "the Force" biologically. I still think we can see it as very mystical though. We only know that the midi's access the energy of the force. Lucas did not explain how or why, so all he has really done here is taken our understanding of the force to a microscopic level. The energy that penetrates us and binds us is still a mystery.

[dude]

There were just so many little (and not so little) things in PM that combined to totally blow away the verasimilitude.

1. Amidala was "elected" queen? Personally, if I was going to elect a queen, I'd probably elect someone who was a bit older and more qualified. Why not just have her be the hereditary ruler (as queens often are), or did GL buy in to the PC sentiment that only evil nations/planets are true monarchies and, therefore, Naboo had to be a democracy.
2. I don't think I'm a prude, but was anyone else uncomfortable with the romantic undertones between the pre-pubescent male lead and the post-pubescent female-lead? For me it was just a little freaky feeling.
3. A highly developed race that can build an entire city underwater cannot communicate with each other except through pidgin English. C'mon, in the first three films, at least it was expected that non-human creatures would communicate in their own language. This is akin to Chaka and the Sleestack Leader's Berlitz course between season two and three. (how's that for relevance to the BBS?) Not to mention that the best foot soldiers for combat in a large open field is always a race who lives underwater.
4. For being slaves, Anakin and his mom have a higher standard of living that many poor people here in the States. Ok, they're slaves, but somehow they have their own apartment and enough resources to not only build a pod racer but also various and sundry robots. In STAR WARS, Uncle Owen pays good money for R2D2 and C3PO, yet we are to believe slaves not only own robots like these but also build them? And this kid who can create a complex machine like C3PO (human-cyborg relations) is just used as a gofer in a junk shop? Anyway, what does Anakin's mom, a slave, need with a protocal droid anyway? To help her set the table properly the next time some queen comes to visit?
Throughout the entire film, I kept asking "were the other ones this bad, too?" The directing was ham-fisted, the acting largely wooden and the script pedantic. A better accounting must be made in any following films to keep any of my interest.

[Slumberlord]

I don't get to say this much, without feeling like a goofball, but:
"DUDE! You went off! You're awesome, Dude!"

All goofiness aside, I think you just kicked PM where it hurts: not in the effects, but in the actual story. Ouch. I'd love to hear anyone's rebuttal to this...